Fallout from “Gerbergate” Reveals Significant Public Safety Concerns
When my youngest daughter was 7 months old she started choking. My wife, who is a trained medical professional as a registered nurse, could not help her dislodge the obstruction and called 911. I am deeply grateful for the first responders from Torrance Fire Department (TFD) and Gerber ambulance that arrived that day to help my family. All of our first responders do deserve a lot of credit and gratitude for how they serve our community each and every day. That said, it was a terrifying experience for our family, and in those situations you realize just how much every second counts.
I had always assumed, as I would imagine so do most of the residents of Torrance, that when you call 911 because your baby girl is choking that the ambulance is coming lights blazing to render aid. That’s why I was absolutely shocked to recently discover that is not necessarily the case in Torrance.
The patient record for my daughter reveals that Gerber ambulance had a box on the form indicating whether they had to stage at the incident. Staging is when Gerber would park a block or two away from the scene awaiting for the TFD to arrive. The form also indicates whether Gerber was called to the scene “Code 2” (no lights or sirens – obeying all traffic laws) or “Code 3” (lights and sirens). Typically, Code 2 is designated for non-life threatening events while Code 3 is for life threatening situations. In Torrance, however, it’s standard for the transport provider to be called Code 2 irrespective of the life threatening nature of the call.
In my daughter’s case the ambulance did not stage as they arrived after TFD, but as is the norm they were called Code 2 to the scene. Thank God my daughter is fine and all turned out okay for us, but I am troubled to think that in the panic of that situation that an ambulance could have been sitting around the corner waiting for TFD to arrive, or that life saving treatment could have arrived sooner had the ambulance been called Code 3 instead of Code 2.
I raised some of these issues that I believe delay patient emergency care at the Council meeting last week and I was very pleased to receive a direct response from the City Clerk’s office this morning. I commend City Council and staff for providing a timely and transparent response to my inquiry. The City response found here stated that the staging practice was discontinued several years ago in an effort to “improve our overall service to the community.” I am left wondering why this seemingly misguided policy was ever standard practice, but I am pleased to hear it is no longer in effect. In the same response, however, the City did confirm that the practice of calling the transport ambulance Code 2 remains in place.
I believe this presents a significant public safety concern. Yes, the TFD responds Code 3 to all emergencies, but depending on the location of the emergency it’s still possible that the ambulance transport provider could get to the scene more quickly due to their initial proximity to the incident. In fact, it was not uncommon for the Gerber ambulances to arrive first on scene even though they responded Code 2. In those situations, a Code 2 response by the transport provider inhibits the patient from being reached by trained first responders as quickly as they otherwise could be if the ambulance were to be called Code 3.
In conversations with Gerber personnel, some have revealed that the TFD was sometimes slow to call them thereby delaying their response to the scene. If this were true, this practice could also delay patient care.
I can’t speak for all other residents of Torrance, but I know that if the same incident happened again with my daughter, or any other life threatening incident occurred with someone I care about, that I would want the nearest trained first responders coming as quickly as they could, whether they were TFD personnel or a private transport company such as Gerber or McCormick.
In raising this issue with the Council, I remember that many of them promised to make public safety their top priority during the recent election. As evidence of that I recall receiving a mailer from one of the Public Safety Departments advocating on behalf of their endorsed candidates. That mailer, which I kept, included the following statements:
“Pat Furey knows that public safety is of the utmost importance”
“Heidi Ashcraft is dedicated to ensure the safety and security of our residents”
“Keeping the citizens of Torrance safe is Geoff’s first priority”
“A vote for Tim is a vote for public safety”
“Mike will keep public safety his top priority and give first responders the tools needed to keep Torrance safe”
Based on these statements, I am hopeful that the current Council will be mindful of their commitment to public safety they made during the past election and do what they can to correct what appears to be a wrongheaded policy that is not in the best interests of the public. In an emergency every second counts, and if there is anything we can do to get aid to those in need more quickly, then we should do it. After all, for someone it could literally mean the difference between life and death.
Of all things the city does, public safety is the last thing that should be determined by politics.
Very, very troubling situation……..
While this is really troubling the other troubling part here is that the residents of Torrance do NOT seem troubled by this practice, or maybe they just don’t know? or don’t care until it happens to them?
What’s troubling is that the people of Torrance are so disengaged from the political process. It’s a foregone conclusion that the vast majority of them have no idea what goes on at city hall. A 13% turn out in the last election shows that. The mayor and council know this very well. They count on it.
On another note, what a ridiculous statement last night at the council meeting by Loyd Brown! Saying he would prefer to wait for the TFD in a life and death emergency rather than get help sooner from Gerber’s must make him the mayor’s greatest sycophant, truly pathetic. To say that in response to Clint’s heartfelt testimony was also rude and uncalled for. Sometimes even a lap dog should know when to keep his mouth shut. He must not have children. That would be a good thing.
My purpose in commenting here is not to knock Lloyd for what he said yesterday. There are people that are a lot smarter than me or that have a perspective due to their life experience that I lack and I try not to mind when people legitimately disagree with me. That is the beauty of debate as it presents an opportunity to learn from and empathize with others. That said, Lloyd’s comments yesterday struck me as emblematic of what is wrong with the political discourse in our country today. People takes sides either in complete ignorance or more out of allegiance to a person, or a party instead of out of legitimate and well reasoned differences of opinion.
If Lloyd were in an accident laying unconscious, not breathing and bleeding in the middle of the street, I have a hard time believing he would rather wait another who knows 3 to 10 minutes for TFD to arrive than receive life saving CPR and initial emergency care from trained Gerber professionals should they be the one’s that arrived first on the scene. Yet, there was Lloyd stating exactly that before the Council and public last night. I felt like he was disagreeing purely to disagree and for what reason who knows. Maybe I’m wrong and he would truly rather risk dying because he believes CPR can only be administered by the TFD. That seems unlikely to me, but if that really is his position I hope he might understand that a large percentage of the public is likely to disagree with him on that point.
needs to be watched very closely
Let me begin by saying that I knew you were going to take my comments personal and I fully intended on explaining to you, in person, at the end of the meeting why I said what I said. Unfortunately, I can only take about 2 hours in those chairs and I could see it wasn’t going to end soon, so I left. That being said, your comments in the email you sent me did more to piss me off than anything. As far as your anonymous fans are concerned, I am not going to bother reading their comments since I really could not care less about the opinion of someone that hides behind “anonymous.” That’s just me.
Now, why did I say that I would like to go on record as to being willing to wait for a paramedic is because in my 60+ years I have experienced and interacted with both. My personal experience is that I will take my chances with a paramedic over an EMT. Please go back and look at the video, I said my personal preference is a paramedic over an ambulance attendant. The only guarantee with an ambulance getting there first is you had better have good insurance.
Now, let’s take a look at your daughter’s episode. First off, as the father of two, one of which took paramedic training when he went to the fire academy and rode in ambulances, I can understand your panic. That being said, you said your wife, “who is a trained medical professional as a registered nurse,” could not help her dislodge the obstruction. Why do you think an EMT is more qualified than an RN? That is exactly why I suggested that people have unrealistic expectation of what an EMT can or is qualified to do. I would take an RN over an EMT any day.
EMT: Basic Life Support
Paramedic: Advanced Life Support
I am glad your daughter is okay, but you are getting upset over something that did not happen (the ambulance did not stage) and it is my contention TFD was the right call.
I didn’t take your comments personally, though I’m glad to hear you intended to speak with me afterward. As I tried to state above, I just felt that you weren’t being genuine in expressing an opposing view on this issue. At the meeting, you did more than just express a preference for a paramedic over an EMT. Roll tape – your exact quote was “if you’re going to send out a first responder to me, have the ambulance stage.” This clearly implies you would rather have no care at all than receive potentially life-saving care from a trained Gerber or McCormick first responder. That seems like complete nonsense to me. ALS treatment may be better than BLS treatment, but BLS is certainly better than no treatment at all. In the same statement you also felt the need to say that Mayor Furey was fun to “kick it” with. That raised the possibility, at least in my mind, that maybe you were letting a personal friendship with the Mayor cloud your thoughts on this issue.
As for my experience, I think you’re missing the point entirely. I related my family’s experience to illustrate a larger concern of how emergency care in Torrance is being handled. It turned out okay for us, but that doesn’t mean someone else would be as lucky. Yes, my wife is a nurse. She actually worked for many years in the ER and at one time prior to that even drove an ambulance. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have that type of experience in the home. It was because of that experience that my wife felt that the best thing for my daughter was to get her as quickly to the hospital as possible where they have doctors and equipment that might be able to make a difference in such situations.
I was not at home when this happened and my wife was also juggling two other small children that were frightened to death. Yes, I’d take someone with my wife’s experience over an EMT, but what did you expect her to do? Do you believe she should have somehow driven herself to the hospital, while trying to care for a choking infant that was turning colors, and handle two other scared kids at the same time all because she is better trained than an EMT? You can’t possibly really mean that? By the way, just because she is an RN doesn’t mean that she keeps laying around the house all the equipment that first responders would bring with them.
I should also note that the Gerber ambulance that transported my daughter to the hospital did so Code 3. So apparently, it was a significant enough emergency that the ambulance needed to go lights and sirens to the hospital. Why then wasn’t it called lights and sirens to my home? If it had come Code 3 to my home, then just maybe they could have gotten to the hospital more quickly – which was the whole point of the 911 call.
I might also suggest you look into the training of the TFD and the Gerber and McCormick employees. The gap in expertise may not be as large as you think.
If after reading this, you still disagree with my position, then well I guess we’ll just have to amicably agree to disagree on this issue.
Lloyd needs to drink less beer and be honest about the corruption going on.
The problem here is that you see EMTs as “ambulance drivers” and not medical professionals. I cannot tell you how many times TFD has “shipped it BLS” because they either trust that an EMT can handle the situation or because they do not want to deal with it.
An EMT is trained to stabilize a patient until advanced care can arrive or be reached by transport. In ALS, one of the first things you learn is keep it BLS until you absolutely must go ALS. EMT are trained in professional rescuer CPR, major bleeding control, diabetic and stroke emergencies, as well as many other common emergencies. The difference between an EMT and paramedic in LA county is a set of drugs, intubation, and cardiac rhythm interpretation. Granted, I am leaving a few things out for the sake of brevity.
I would also like to point out that your medics are not the white knights you believe them to be. They would send a lot of ALS patients “code 2” with an all EMT crew when a medic should have been on board. Fortunately, nurses at the hospital would write them up for it and not place the blame solely on us. I really hope this gains more attention, because there’s a lot that needs to come out of the dark corner that is the EMS culture in most major cities.